this is thi
six a clock
news thi
man said n
thi reason
a talk wia
BBC accent
iz coz yi
widny wahnt
mi ti talk
aboot thi
trooth wia
voice lik
wanna yoo
scruff. if
a toktaboot
thi trooth
lik wanna yoo
scruff yi
widny thingk
it wuz troo.
jist wanna yoo
scruff tokn.
thirza right
way ti spell
ana right way
to tok it. this
is me tokn yir
right way a
spellin. this
is ma trooth.
yooz doant no
thi trooth
yirsellz cawz
yi canny talk
right. this is
the six a clock
nyooz. belt up.
six a clock
news thi
man said n
thi reason
a talk wia
BBC accent
iz coz yi
widny wahnt
mi ti talk
aboot thi
trooth wia
voice lik
wanna yoo
scruff. if
a toktaboot
thi trooth
lik wanna yoo
scruff yi
widny thingk
it wuz troo.
jist wanna yoo
scruff tokn.
thirza right
way ti spell
ana right way
to tok it. this
is me tokn yir
right way a
spellin. this
is ma trooth.
yooz doant no
thi trooth
yirsellz cawz
yi canny talk
right. this is
the six a clock
nyooz. belt up.
Hi everybody. Thanks for some fantastic discussion last lesson on the poem above. For your homework, I am asking you to engage in further discussion of the poem with each other, using some of the points raised in class as a starting point, for example:
1) Tom Leonard's Glaswegian accent and attitudes towards it/him.
2) The BBC and the fact that it is based in London.
3) The fact that the poem is written phoentically.
4) Consider why the poem is written in a narrow form on the page.
5) Standard English and Received Pronunciation
Here are some useful links to continue your thinking about the poem:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/english/poemscult/unrelatedrev2.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/learningzone/clips/tom-leonard-the-six-o-clock-news/10301.html
Watch Tom Leonard talking about the poem below. What are your thoughts about what he says? Start a discussion with somebody.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfU9qm-oOUY&feature=related
You migth also consider doing some research into the terms 'Standard English' and 'Received Pronunciation'.
Good luck and get talking!
I think the man is bringing across that his accent and the way he speak is fine, and ours isn't. He said it in BBC London to attract as many peoples attention as he could and bring across that his accent is right and ours is wrong. BBC London News is nationwide so everyone would be seeing what he was saying! He wrote the poem phonetically, but i'm not sure why it was set out in a narrow list...
ReplyDeleteI think that when he said he was being called 'scruff' that it was an insult. I'm not sure whether or not he was insulting the BBC or the BBC was insulting him, does anybody know? Oh, and I thought the BBC was based in Salford near Manchester, or is that just me? I still don't understand why it is written in one long column or if you are from around Maidenhead what accent you have but, yeah. Also, i find it really difficult to read words that are spelt phonetically and i have to work out what it means, but i still don't really understand.
ReplyDeleteI think the man is trying to say that there is no real "proper" accent, it all just depends on where your from or grew up. I think he felt that he had to bring forward the idea that everyone speaks normally but just in different ways......:)
ReplyDeleteI think he is trying to say that there is no 'proper' way to speak (accent or dialect wise.).
ReplyDeleteI think that it was written phonetically because it is exactly how Tom, who is from Glasgow, speaks. It isn't pronounced in 'The Queens English', and therefore why should he write in that way?
Also, I think that he is having a go at the BBC for employing Londeners, why speak 'the queens english' and with a 'posh' accent (I know we realise there is no proper accent, but up there they may think its proper or the right way to speak, as the BBC is shown nationwide? This is only a guess)
I dont really know why the poem is written narrowly, so I will simply guess. Possibly because they present it like that? The BBC news presenters, prehaps? They are very quick with their words and if you switch the subtitles on, they only say a few words at a time before drawing breath.
Most of this is probably a rambaling guess. Anyone else know or want to take a stab at it?
i think that this man is sort of insulting our accent and saying that it is not the "normal" way of speaking. we may think that out accent is the normal way of speaking because that is the accent we have grown up with and heard, but actually there is no normal accent that everybody should speak. we have a very similar accent to the bbc presenters because the bbc is situated in london very close to where we live. i think that he has written phonetically because he is trying to get his point across. if he is writing a poem about the way he thinks people to pronounce things then he needs to show them how he would pronounce things.
ReplyDeletei dont know why the poem is written in such a narrow form, mabye someone could help me with this :D
I think when people live in a town or city all there life they will belive they are speaking the proper way but there is no proper way to speak and there is no proper way say words. However, when we go away from our town or city, for instance up north, we would think they are speaking with an accent but they would think we are speaking with an accent. Also some people think that the queen speeks proper English ,but, she doesnt she just speaks that way because it is where she is from. Over all, there is no proper way to speak or say things.
ReplyDeleteI think he has spelt it phonetically because he wants people to read it how it sounds and when you read out aloud you end up 'tokn wia' glaswegian accent.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the poem he says "this is mi tokn yir right way a spellin" which I think he means this is the right way to spell and that when you read it that is the right way of talking.
I think that he thinks just the same thing that we do which is that our way of talking is the right way and all he has done is just said that in a poem.
Oh and does anyone have an idea of why he doesn't use capital letters?
ReplyDeletei think that he's trying to mimic the people who are always talking in a 'posh' accent on the BBC and show that everyone's way of speaking is just fine! But then i think that he is trying to insult our accent like Natasha said. Sometimes people on television or in movies tell someone to speak 'properly' and they always refer to my kind of accent which my parents call a southern accent. So overall i think he's trying to say there is no PROPER way to speak
ReplyDeleteI think he is trying to say that to him, it doesn’t sound like he has an accent because he grew up with that accent all around him whereas, to us it sounds like he does have an accent because accents around the world are all different. We must should like we have an accent to him. I think the words are spelt wrong to show the way he speaks and the way he pronounces words because if it was spelt in proper English we would not know how he would pronounce the words unless we saw the video.
ReplyDeleteI think that he was trying to get his point across that his way of speaking is the correct way, even though there is no 'proper' way of speaking is correct. As the BBC is set in London and that the use people from London (or around that area) to appear/talk on the programme/radio people must be pretty insulted around the UK... As the broadcast is featured all over England.
ReplyDeleteI think that in the poem he uses the word 'scruff' to use as an insult. Some of the words in the poem I can't understand as it's written phonetically.
I think he is trying to get a point across, I think the point is that the BBC should use accents from all over the UK so it is fair. The BBC only use people with 'posh' London accents. I think he has used the word 'scruff' for us to see the BBC from his point of view, I think he finds it unfair and he thinks BBC are being snooty by not using any other accent.I think he has written it phonetically to make a bigger impact on the reader to show that THIS IS MY ACCENT AND I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE ELSE THINKS!
ReplyDeleteI don't think the man is trying to affend anyone with this poem but I think he is genuinely annoyed at the "stereo-type" news readers who appear with the oxbride accents on our screen. People then instantly think that that is the "right" way to talk and that his accent is the "wrong" way to talk. I think he wrote it in a long line to act as a news column because he is talking about newsreaders.
ReplyDeleteI think he wrote this poem the way he would say it and he is saying that the BBC only uses london accents that they think people can understad better and are 'proper english accents' alough theres no proper way to speak. There is nothing wrong with the way he speaks and he thinks they should use accents from all over the UK on the BBC because they only use accents from in and around london.
ReplyDeleteWhen you 'translate' this poem into what 'normal' writing, this poem makes much more sense:
ReplyDeleteThis is the
six o'clock
news the
man said and
the reason
I talk with a
BBC accent
is because you
wouldn't you want
me to talk
about the
truth with a
voice like
one of your
scruff. If
I talked about
the truth
like one of your
scruff you
wouldn't you think
it was true.
Just one of your
scruff talking.
There's a right
way to spell
and a right way
to talk it. This
is me talking your
right way of
spelling. This
is my truth.
You don't know
the truth
yourselves because
you cannot talk
right. This is
the six o'clock
news. Belt up.
He's basically saying that if people talked on the news with a Glaswegian accent, then people wouldn't think that what he was saying was true, just a common person speaking. He seems quite angry, with the language that he is using.I think that because the BBC is based in London, which is the capital city, people think that that is the 'right' and 'normal' way of talking. But actually 'normal' depends on where you come from, the formality of the situation you are in and where and what you're doing. I think that this poem is written phonetically because it does really help you picture who is saying it, and how it's said.
Oops, mine didn't seem to post so I'll write it again!
ReplyDeleteIn this poem he is saying that are accents and the way we talk is 'wrong' and his accent and the way he talks is 'right'. Another thing, is that he is saying that if he was to talk on our BBC news station nobody would think he was telling the truth as opposed to our 'posh' speaking BBC reporters from London, who speak 'proper English'. Also, he is saying there is no correct way to talk. As well, I think at the end when he says 'belt up' he means that, everyone needs to stop stereo typing how people talk and 'should' talk.
I think that he is annoyed with the BBC by the language he is using also i think that he thinks that if he spoke with his accent people would think he was lying and not telling the truth for some reason. I also think that he feels the BBC think his accent isn't so called "proper" but in fact there isn't a proper way to talk everyone has a different accent!
ReplyDeleteI think, just like many others, that he is trying to say that there is no "proper" accent. However, I disagree with Sophie because I dont think that he is annoyed with the BBC, I think he is just trying to make a point by talking in the way he usually does instead of putting on a usual BBC accent. The only reason he might sound annoyed is because he is (like I said before)trying to make a point by calling, maybe people like us "scruff". I also think that the way in which it is written is more confusing and maybe offensive as it is the phonelogical (not sure if thats what it is...??) alphabet.
ReplyDeleteI think that the whole point of the poem is to show there is no proper way to talk where ever you come from. Everyone is used to the way people talk around us so we assume that is the way everyone should talk but people talk in different ways according to where we grew up. I also think he is trying to say that no matter how anybody talks nobody's accent is better than anyone else.
ReplyDeleteI had to create a new google account because mine was just not working- sorry!
ReplyDeleteI think that he is trying to say that there is no 'British' accent as such and is trying to show the BBC there opinion. But I disagree with Eleanor- I agree with Sophie- I don't think he has quite reached anger mode but is nearly there. He is just trying to prove his point. He may call us 'scruffs' but there is no need to be offended because we think he is a scruff just because we are not used to such a strong accent. I can very much imagine that lots of people have the very same query as myself- Why do the BBC and other popular television company’s (e.g. ITV and Channel 4) use people who don't sound like they have an accent to us but to someone in Sheffield it will sound completely different and they might not be able to understand it as clearly as we do so to them do they have an accent? Why do they employ the Londoners? Is it because they are from that area?
I am not quite sure what is going on- sorry!
ReplyDeleteI think that he is trying to say that there is no 'British' accent as such and is trying to show the BBC there opinion. But I disagree with Eleanor- I agree with Sophie- I don't think he has quite reached anger mode but is nearly there. He is just trying to prove his point. He may call us 'scruffs' but there is no need to be offended because we think he is a scruff just because we are not used to such a strong accent. I can very much imagine that lots of people have the very same query as myself- Why do the BBC and other popular television company’s (e.g. ITV and Channel 4) use people who don't sound like they have an accent to us but to someone in Sheffield it will sound completely different and they might not be able to understand it as clearly as we do so to them do they have an accent? Why do they employ the Londoners? Is it because they are from that area?
I think he is just trying to explain his point of view on the way to talk on the BBC news, almost insulting the accent we use. As the BBC is based in London, and he sounds as if he's from somewhere else, he's saying that those who sound more formal, sound more believable than those who have a strong accent. Say you were tuning into the BBC news and you heard this accent, would you believe everything that was being said? Would it not sound very inportant? He is trying to get across that this is NOT the case.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Catherine and to us he is offending by I think to him its not rude like we see calling people scruff but his normal way of speech and he doesn't find that rude or hurtful. Also I think he is right in saying that the BBC is silly saying there is a proper way to speak and a proper English accent. I also think the BBC is being bias about the way people speak because you only see people talking in the way that people from London would speak and they not capturing Britain's wide variety of accents and they are influencing everyone especially younger children there is a right way to speak and influencing adults to correct children's grammar as to what they think is a proper accent. like in my family my parents correct the way I speak if I drop letters like T's in my speach.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI understand a bit more now about Tom Leonard. He spells words the way they sound and he has layered it out in that way to make it stand out more in like phrases so it seems shorter than it is. He might be saying that the people who present the BBC News has to speak Standard English, and can have an accent like his because there are different accents in Britain, how come he picked this one? Why not his? When Mr Long said who said that there is a PROPER way of writing or speaking, there isn't! Everyone speaks differently because of their accent!
ReplyDeleteI think the guy is trying to bring across the fact that pretty much all the news presenters on the BBC have the accents that we have. But i dont think hes just tring to aim it at the bbc i think its for everyone otherwise he couldv'e just written a complaint it wouldv'e saved a lot of time and effort.
ReplyDeleteI now have a clearer understanding of the poet as we discussed it in class. I think he is annoyed at how people always use the standard English for the BBC and he is trying to say that his way of speaking is right, like the BBC is showing to the British public (in a way). As all the people on the BBC news use a standard English and i think if you went to a interview for the BBC as a speaking part, you would have to talk in a clear voice which the majority of the British public would understand, so if you have had an education you would understand the standard English better, which is how the people talk in on the BBC. So what i think he is trying to get across is the fact that basically we are saying to people with a different accent to the people in the BBC, haven't had a proper education as they don't speak the standard English.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Phoebe, I also understand the poet more. BCC is based in Londodn so the people would prefer a standard english accent, so that more people would understand. I think that Tom Leonard is expressing how he feels, there is no proper way to talk, we all have accents! The poem is spelled phoneticallyon purpose to show others that peoples accents and dialect are different. Say id he went to a job interview and someone from London went on an interveiw I think they would pick that someone from London because it is standard english.
ReplyDeleteAlso people assume that if you dont speak standard english you have not been educated which is wrong. Our parebts and teachers have brought us up to speak in a certain accent which is apperently "proper."
.....
ReplyDeleteSorry about that I was just testing if it would post my comment and it did...Anyway back to the poem. The man reading the poem(Tom)as it would be spelled.. e.g I think it was spelled MI but we us In Maidenhead or slough would say it was my but wouldn't prounce it as how we say it. I can tell that the mam was quite grumpy and moody. It is because he had no expression on his face and I think that he had this emotion because maybe people the kick or laugh at acccent,such as an Scottish accent and maybe he is trying to make a point that there is no PROPER English and people with accent talk like that because that is how they are brougt up and nobody should have a problem with that unless you are going to interview and that would then lead us to teachers and parents. In my primary school I said to the teacher" Miss can I go and fill up my waer bottle instead of adding the T...she would then tell me to use proper English. I don't think that they mean it as you have to say or prounouce it like that. I think they say it because if you ever had an interview you wouldn't say coz instead of because,they say to show respect and to show that have had an education and that you have been educated.
ReplyDeleteI think that he is trying to say that the BBC were being a bit unfair because he can't help his accent, everyone has a different accent. Most people may not be able to understand him is probably what the BBC thought which is why they always use someone with a clear voice like on a SATs test, they use a women with a very clear voice so all of the children can understand it because they need to, to do the test.
ReplyDeleteI also think that he is kinda having a go at the BBC, I don't think this poem is amusing nor serious. I just think that he wanted his point to be heard. I don't think that it is fair to call someones accent 'scruff' it is quite mean. There are lots of different accents now in commercials like Cheryl Coles but the BBC still mostly use 'posh' accents that most people could understand.
ReplyDeleteI understand this poem a more now that we have discussed it more in class, I think Tom Leonard is trying to get across that the way he speaks is the right way as most people do and he is trying to show this by the poem he wrote by writing it the way he would say it. I think he doesnt like the fact that the BBC uses the standard English and not any other accent all over the UK. The BBC is based in London which is also our capital city and most people would be able to understand standard english the best. I think the BBC think that if you were to talk differently than standard english you have not been educated very well because you are not talking the 'right way' alought there is no right way to talk and everybody has a different accent.
ReplyDeleteI think Tom Leonard wrote the poem phonetically to show the way he would say it if he was to say it.
I think he has layed it out the way he has because it makes everyword and every sentence stand out more.
I think the man is trying to say from his point of view that his accent is the way to speak.When I first of all saw this poem I didn't really understand it because I am used to reading pieces of text in Standard English.The BBC chose the Standard English accent because it is an accent everyone can understand.
ReplyDeleteI think people stereotype people who speak Received Pronunciation as well educated and in my words people who speak like that (mainly in London) 'posh'. Also, another reason I think RP accents are stereotyped because the country's leaders speak with that accent which makes the accent world known. (sorry if what I have written there doesn't make any sense)
I think the poet is just trying to make a point and doesn't mean to offend anyone, but understand why it would, because he is calling people with Greater London accents 'scruffs'.
I understand it more now we have discussed it in class.
i think he's trying to get back at the people who disliked the way he spoke. we all speak in different tones ETC.... but it doesnt mean he can get all aggresive although the point he's talking about is very serious. he needs to learn to accept that people talk in different ways and that there is no 'correct' way to speak
ReplyDeleteI think that he doesn't like being called sruff and other things to do with his accent because probably could say worse about other people with "proper accents". I dont think he likes it because his accent is normal to him.On the news people talk with a "proper acccent" I think that makes him and where he's from left out.
ReplyDeleteOh yeh and i agree with imogen :).
ReplyDeleteI know I now understand the poem better because we discussed it in class. Tom Leonard does not like the fact that the BBC use people from London to present and report etc. on their shows. He wants them to use a variety of people from different places in the UK. But this is very unlikely to happen because the BBC use the standard English- which is the language in a form which most people will be able to understand. which most people can understand.
ReplyDeleteI think it is right to use standard English on BBC news but to maybe sometime include people with different accents as long as the accent is not to strong. Perhaps use standard English for most of the show and for small parts other accents.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if this is relevant or not but I think it is so i'll just say it. I think the author of the 'poem' may have had a bad history with other people that have the same accent as the reporters/presenters on the BBC.
ReplyDeleteMy mum was born in Leeds but she had to move to Hertfordshire when she was eleven because of her dads job. She was bullied badly because of her accent as it was still really strong then and because of it hated the whole of her secondary school life.
I think that maybe the author could of had a similar experience and therefore that is the reason that he has such a strong dislike of those who have the same accent as the people who bullied him.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Catherine- It could be that he was teased by some people or someone for his accent when he was younger. Maybe that person was a londoner- who knows? I've searched through loads of websites but Tom must be a very private person- I've hardly found anything about him only about few awards and other poems) and hardly a scrap on his childhood. All I knew (before I G. searched him) is that he is from Glasgow.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I may've not been looking enough.
Anyway....
________________________________________________
In my opinion, this poem portrays him as proudly scottish, albeit a bit on the agressive side.
Before I get onto some of the words that I haven't come across before, I think that he has a very direct and almost 'in your face' message. phrases like 'Y windney want' (not, 'you wouldn't want'), 'talktaboot' ('talk about') and so on make me think this.
Anyway, I've found some words when mixed with his tone of voice and accent that make him sound very rough and tough (can I even say that without causing prejudices against people from Glasgow?!).
words like 'cawz/talkaboot/windney' and so on.
Also, stuff like 'Belt up', which is at the end. My dad tells me and my sister to 'Belt up' when we are fighting or arguing. (basically, it means shut up.)
But when a stranger tells you to belt up, It makes me think of a big leather belt and the prospect of being hit with it! Is that just me...? Anyway, I think that also makes him sound very agressive and a bit full of himself.
I havent the foggiest what 'Scruff' means. Urban dictionary was seriously unhelpful, so this is guesswork- does it mean someone common or dirty..? Or even a fight (With the context he has used it in, it would make sence to mean something like "You wouldnt want me to speak about the truth [meaning the news] with a voice [accent/dialect] like you want to fight". In my world, it makes perfect sence when used like that, but my world is a bit strange, anyway. Does anyone see this too?
My dad uses both phrases, but he's not from Glasgow though- so could scruff and belt up be all round words regardless of different accents?
_________________________________________________
I think the poem is written narrowly because it may be how the newsreaders on the actual news read like. Consider this:
"this is thi
six a clock
news (pause/breath)
thi man said n
thi reason
a talk wia
BBC accent (pause/breath)
iz coz yi
widny wahnt
mi ti talk
aboot thi (pause/breath)
trooth wia
voice lik
wanna yoo
scruff..."
If you listen to it you can sort of hear where they start and end what is like a mini paragraph (on the news, I mean!!!).
I think Tom leonard has tried to do this to try and make his poem different and authentic (after all, he has the setting and suit to play the part of a newsreader!).
Another idea that crosses my mind when I was thinking about this is that this could be like one massive outburst- consider the unbroken paragraph, no full stops or punctuation. It is like when you get angry and have a massive rant. You tend to say everything in very quick succession, without pauses, and when you get as agitated as that, that punctuation (as well as breathing) goes out of the window.
_________________________________________________
Thats all I have... so far. But many people on here have already said what I was going to say anyway, or this post would've been longer (!!!). In my opinion, there isnt any point in contantly repeating what has already been said.
Also... is it just me, or does 'windeny' sound really cool to you?!
I think that he is trying to tell people that he isnt the one talking wierdly but that other people are (the people talking on the bbc news) I think that he is sort of mocking them and that he is saying the way he speaks is the way that is normal. :)
ReplyDeleteI think the poet has tried to insult/mock the BBC as it is set in London, and all the people that read the news are from London (or around there) and known of them are from any where else as some people can't understand them too well. He is trying to tell people that his accent is the 'proper' way to talk, although there is no 'proper' way to speak/talk.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think that the way he has set it out (a long column) has something to do with his accent/the way he speaks?
i think he has set it out in that way because he's trying to get his message across so that it catches everyones attention and get his own back because he thought the bbc were insulting him, which they werent. he just needs to accept that there are different ways to speak :)
ReplyDeleteI agree with Imogen, also I think that he has set it out in a long coloumn becuase he wanted people to notice that he has spelled it phonetically so that others understand (BCC) that poeople have different accents nd dialects. If think the poem stands out more in a long coloumn. I think he is trying to say that there is no "proper" accent and he is expressing how he feels about that :)
ReplyDeletewhy didnt I mention of the phonetics thing?! Now it's been said, I feel kind of stupid XD.
ReplyDeleteBut anyway, Im sort of copying the above answers. Its prob. so that people that aren't from around his area can understand him.
Would that make RP easier? I have no idea whether I've used it in the right context (for I would hate to be misleading :-/ ) but what I mean is that people would recognise he was from Glasgow, obviosuly not from the English region... and also DOESN'T have a neutral accent (BBC accent)?